The Rando Exchange; Rando’s comments in purple
(05-19-2018 03:08 AM)Brother Rando Wrote: Christ has began ruling his Messianic Kingdom and the second day of Christ is coming to its end. Which means the sealing of the slaves is coming to its completion. (Rev12:3-4)
The Temple is now Heavenly out of the reach of Satan since he has already been cast out of the Heavens. The cleansing is the removal of apostates by striking them with blindness. “He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up, And we will live before him. We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain, Like a spring rain that saturates the earth.” (Hosea 6:2-3)
“In Brother Rando’s research of the Bible, he found scripture does interpret other scripture. The answer to how long a day was, according to God’s Will was found in (Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8). This is vital to gaining understanding in how we are to measure time in God’s view. Spiritually and not fleshy or physical. A day in heavens time is a thousands years to us. It’s by this method we can measure time and where we are in the stream of time of the end. In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (John 2:19) Was Jesus indicating that he was the Temple of God, God’s Kingdom? And that the temple would in fact be destroyed or broken down? According to God’s Word, the following scripture is the basis for Salvation. “For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9) In order for John 2:19 and Romans 10:9 to come in line, did Jesus utter a prophecy about God’s Kingdom since he stated, “I will raise it up”? IF the basis for salvation is that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him up. We can conclude that Jesus did not raise himself up, but it was God that raised him, since Jesus was dead and conscious of nothing at all. (Ecc 9:5) Jesus prophesied that HE would raise God’s Kingdom. Jesus was speaking prophetically of raising the temple of God within the third day of a thousand years. Jesus warned Peter not to think the thoughts of man. (Matthew 16:23) Based on 2 Peter 3:8 if we apply that a physical day is a thousand years, then we are able to determine the time frame to when God’s Kingdom would be raised up by Jesus Christ. Jesus was put to death on Nisan 14, 33CE. The two days would actually represent two thousand years and we come up with the year 2033. Jesus stated,“in three days I will raise it up.” So the third day is upon us in 2034.
Was Jesus Christ speaking in a physical sense, since he just condemned the temple to everlasting destruction at (Matthew 24:2)? Jehovah Witnesses assert that Jesus under inspiration of Holy Spirit was actually prophesying about his spiritual body as the only means to approach his Heavenly Father. (John 14:6) Not the Temple made by hands or his fleshy body as Christendom claims, but his spiritual body, known as the Body of Christ. This would actually be the Collective Representative of God’s Kingdom in how we can approach the One True God JEHOVAH.”
“Also, the person falling on this stone will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.” (Matthew 21:44) The crushing of the weeds began in Pentecost 33 CE and will be completed by 2033 CE as those sealed come into full Kingdom Power in the third day, thereafter. We still don’t know the hour or day but know the season. Those who are crushed, die the second death of everlasting destruction and that crushing actually began with the wicked Jewish leaders, then the superfine apostles, and now their offspring. Once the weeds are bundled up to be burned, then the sheep and the goats are separated. But only after the weeds who caused stumbling are removed in a spiritual sense, since the weeds are dying the second death now.
The separation of the weeds from the wheat doesn’t come after the Temple is completed, but before the completion of the Temple. Christ is the Temple, this one you have already denied like that of Judas. I have no need to judge you for that judgement has already been rendered.
We can address how the Temple completion is parallel with the Messianic Kingdom completion. But you have 2034 correct, but some details will be clarified in the last witnessing 1260 days because it is where the Daniel 12:11 1290 days of final open salvation offer TO ALL is completed in the Revelation 14:6-8 final drama under 8th King world government. There is also another way to prove 2034 in relation to 1914 and “last days” and its time frame of 120 years allowance as in Genesis 6:3. The Genesis 7:4 final week of Noah’s “last days” is a pattern of the final 1260 days and 1290 days week of also, open salvation offered to all. It relates to Daniel 9’s symbolic open week of covenant as well.====
(05-19-2018 03:08 AM)Brother Rando Wrote: Christ has began ruling his Messianic Kingdom and the second day of Christ is coming to its end.
Let us address your first misconcpetion. As Jehovah’s witnesses have plainly taught the Messianic Kingdom portion of God’s Kingdom purpose was ONLY BORN in 1914 (Rev12) and cannot complete until all 144000 are SEALED (Rev7,14), not just anointing but affirmation sealing from God.
HOW can Christ rule an incomplete Kingdom? How can Christ take 90% of a bride?
And that Messianic Kingdom maturation is in the future and at that time Jesus Christ is coronated King of kings upon a MATURE Messianic Kingdom— in the future.
God’s Kingdom Crowning-1914
In 1914 Christ was coronated by God as the [temporary] King of God’s Kingdom when he received, as JWs teach, the seven seals full understanding of how the then newborn Messianic Kingdom, by its “remnant”, would be gathered to complete later, the Messianic Kingdom agency.
The Messianic Kingdom of Christ is the covenant legal entity that actually rules Earth directly— forever and ever. This 1914 God’s Kingdom kingship and kingdom is what Christ “hands back to God” in 1Cor15:28 after the 1000 years mission is completed. (1Cor15:26)
Messianic Kingdom Crowning-Future
The Messianic Kingdom has yet to also have a final proclamation too, and it has yet to complete in the future.
The Messianic Kingdom, yet to mature to completion in the future (Dan2:31-45), is how Christ rules as the “root and offspring of David” (Rev22:16) as in the Son of David Covenant with Christ as the legal heir of Earth, yet Christ is forever under God’s Supreme Sovereignty. Jehovah’s witnesses already used to teach all this but I guess you forgot how it works.
That is why it says this at Revelation 22:5:
Quote:There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord [Jehovah] God will give them light. And they [God and the Lamb] will reign for ever and ever.
TWO Witnessings 1260 Days, Past and Future
This is why there are two witnesses of Revelation 11.
1. Witness 1 – The first witnessing gives proclamation from God of Chist’s God’s Kingdom coronation and ever revealed purpose, 1914-1918 onward, 1260 days.
2. Witness 2 – The last witnessing coming up in time (Dan8:14>>Rev11:3) is also 1260 days in the future to give proclamation from Jehovah that Jesus Christ is coming to complete the to be matured Messianic Kingdom of Christ and be Kinged King of kings on its completion— for as you see JWs are not doing this correctly at this time.
Seven Times as Also 2520 Days
And that 1260 days twice with each of the TWO witnessings of Revelation 11 (1260X2=2520), 1914-1918 1260 days and future 1260 days, is 2520 days.
Does the “seven times” have any meaning to you today? It used to, to Jehovah’s witnesses when they were doing good. (Zech3:3)
That 2520 days “seven times”, completed with that final 1260 days of the future, is the FINAL “seven times” Christ spoke of here at Luke 21:24, in relation to the final “times” in Revelation 11:2b “and the holy city will be trampled 42 months”:
Quote:Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.
This is why the “until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled” is in plural form in Christ’s key prophecy in regard to the 2520 years AND the Revelation 11 need for TWO witnessings for also, 2520 days “seven times”; BOTH “appointed times” completing their own “seven times” on the “holy city” by “trampling”, one from the past the other soon to be in our face, again, in the future. (Rev10:11) And both the Daniel 4 based seven times and the Revelation 11 seven times focus on “the holy city” “Jerusalem”, yet their meaning has become fully spiritual now in the 2520 days requirement “seven times” completion in the future.
Seven is God’s Completion Number, Not 3.5 Times (Dan7:25; Dan12:7; Rev11:2-3; 12:6,14; 13:5 happen TWICE)
“Seven times” is how God completes a process, not just “time, times and half a time” and that is the sacred secret of how Revelation 11’s two witnessings for 1260 days is simply calculated for salvation purpose of many— it TOO is a “seven times” completion for a SIGN of the truth in what it indicates.
The first “seven times” is the 2520 years which ended in 1914 and led to the very 1914 year for the START of the last “seven times”, as witnessing 1 of the TWO witnesses in 1260 days in 1914-1918 began this requirement as now 2520 days required, a full final “seven times” but as days, 1260 days, twice, one for each of the TWO witnesses of Revelation 11.
Future Last Witness
Now there is a final Kingdom Proclamation to give for Jehovah’s witnesses after the temple judgment of Daniel 8:13-14 comes on us and it is why we must prophesy again in the future:
Quote:And they say to me, “you must prophesy AGAIN with regard to [all the nations]”
In Daniel 8:14 time this will get “morning” clearer for you, I understand how you were misled by oversimplifications and the GB of Revelation 2:2 and Daniel 11:32a.
We are prophesying…. your two steps behind and falling further as every second goes by… tick tock tick tock….. the future is here as you look for your future temple. Don’t get stuck on 1914 for Satan knows he has a short time? It is later than you think? Have you ever looked at (Genesis 6:3)??
Jehovah Witnesses assert that Jesus under inspiration of Holy Spirit was actually prophesying about his spiritual body as the only means to approach his Heavenly Father. (John 14:6) Not the Temple made by hands or his fleshy body as Christendom claims, but his spiritual body, known as the Body of Christ. This would actually be the Collective Representative of God’s Kingdom in how we can approach the One True God JEHOVAH. Brother Rando is not the first to come up with this time frame. In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the “time of trouble” on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly. Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such neglect the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.” International Bible Students Association: “Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands.”
According to the discussion, 1914 represents the year that the earth would enter into a time of distress and that time limit could very well be 120 years. Which again, brings up the year 2034. The year 1914 is derived by a prophecy of the end of the Gentile times. Brother Rando insists that we should not live by a date, but to use this time to get right with God. Jesus continually pointed that the people who were on the earth when he would raise God’s Temple would be like those people in Noah’s time, taking no note. Where do the 120 years come from? If we read Genesis 6:3, most people think of this scripture in the fleshy sense of man’s lifespan. But could there be a spiritual meaning, giving those with Insight a divine warning? The Bible does say, “make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end.” (Daniel 12:4) Could it be, this world has entered into it’s Last Days in 1914? (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Yet there is another scripture that helps us measure the time. In Ecclesiastes 6:6 it reads, “Even supposing that he has lived a thousand years twice over and yet he has not seen what is good, is it not to just one place that everyone is going?” The chapter talks about vanity and that if a person actually lived two thousand years without God’s Kingdom we are all heading to the same place. Since death was the punishment, we would need God’s Kingdom to conquer death, the place we all are heading. A thousand years twice over is two thousand years. Simple math from the year 33 CE, again brings us to the time of 2033, when the second thousand years has been brought to it’s finish.
Could Christ Millennial reign be from 2034 to 3034? We don’t know. Jesus stated, he would raise God’s Temple in the third day, so we can expect God’s Kingdom to be fully operating sometime between the years 2034 and 3034. However, Jesus Christ was risen first thing on the very morning in the third day. Most Bible readers are in agreement that Christ does rule for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
You have 2034 correct, JWs will need the rest shown after Daniel 8:13-14 temple judgment comes and reaches its “morning phase”. Now you are just ignoring what I said to state pretty closely what all anointed Christians and earth Christians have already known since the 30s onward but all wrapped up by 1950— except the 2034 which also has another proof, actually two more but you have two of them so well done.
Daniel 12:11 FUTURE 1290 days will end into 2034, so I guess there are three more proofs for the 2034 inception of Daniel 12:12 for “the happy”, earthlings who must actually attend the Marriage of the Lamb when it stages it’s earthly reception for that final covenant for this era (first covenant of the 1000 Years new era), the 8th covenant of the Bible briefly noted in Ezekiel 34:25 and one other time, but here is 34:
Quote:“‘I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of savage beasts so that they may live in the wilderness and sleep in the forests in safety.
That Covenant of Peace can be proven to become validated and activated AFTER the Marriage of the Lamb is complete as the “great crowd” “center of the [new] earth” are the first adopted children of the Lamb and his Bride. (This is why, FOR THE FUTURE, the 1335 days phase is also noted in Daniel 12:12, it is to be the most important period the “great crowd” will find themselves in, up to that time, and it will become a marked event for all time, they meet their Eternal Father and Eternal Mother and they join the family as OFFICIALLY adopted children en route to human perfection— they must enter the “Covenant of Peace” officially. Now what human event ever could match that event in a person’s life? (up to that time in human progress to perfection of Revelation 22 and its offer of human immortality after the 1000 year reign portion completes)
In the meantime, you need to go back re-read what has been told you, please, in the previous posts for the next few years— you WILL need it. (Eze 33:33)
You are correct on 2034 in concept, BUT the whole Good News summary of Revelation 10:5-7 of the future will also form its proof in globally seen manner. As an example of a couple more details you should start another thread, General Religion, because right now JW GB/elders would consider you a heretic talker– BUT, you KNOW it is THE TRUTH!.
You should go reread what has been told to you, please. A final 1260 days occurs after Daniel 8:14 timing and events come on JWs and it leads to that final 1290 days in grand manner with full proof, in time. The importance of the 1290 days and 2034 is that that WHOLE 1290 day period is still OPEN FOR SALVATION and is the period of Revelation 14:6-8, post Christ arrival angelic offer to all mankind. Only so many will avail themselves of that offer, but it is what it is.
The Last Witness of the TWO Witness – This is also why there is to be a future seven trumpet cycle, God already said He would keep it in reserve until ready:
Quote:(Isaiah 42:9) . . .“The first things—here they have come, but new things I am telling out. Before they begin to spring up, I cause you people to hear [them].”
(Isaiah 43:18-19) 18 “Do not remember the first things (1914-1919), and to the former things do not turn your consideration. 19 Look! I am doing something new. Now it will spring up. you people will know it, will you not? (Isaiah 42:9) .The first things (1914-1919)—here they have come, but new things (of the future) I am telling out. Before they begin to spring up, I cause you people to hear [them].
(Isaiah 48:6-7) You have heard. Behold it all. As for you people, will you not tell [it]? I have made you hear new things from the present time, even THINGS KEPT IN RESERVE, that you have not known. 7 At the present time they must be created, and not from that time, even things that before today you have not heard, that you may not say, ‘Look! I have already known them.’
(05-19-2018 06:03 PM)Brother Rando Wrote: Please stay on topic: Christ is the Angel of the Covenant
If you have an ax to grind about the Governing Body then make your own thread…. your polluting the thread by jumping off in different directions.
It is the same direction, it is called The Temple Judgment. Jehovah’s witnesses are now under inspection of the Angel of the Covenant and what he sees is befouled garments on anointed Joshua.
Quote:3 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan[a] standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel.
That oughta keep it on topic.
(05-19-2018 07:12 PM)Brother Rando Wrote: That’s where we differ. We know that Jesus is the Chief Cornerstone of the Heavenly Temple. It’s not earthly.
I shall demonstrate this is what JWs ALREADY have taught, you just seem to have forgotten or were never taught this.
Never said the Temple was earthly, we all know that. The Angel of the Covenant is not just the cornerstone he is the “head stone” as well, as Jehovah’s witnesses already agree on, this is no debate here– some have merely forgotten what we are doing here on Earth:
Quote:“What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’”
That same parallel to temple completion of Revelation 11 is why Jehovah’s witnesses and Revelation itself parallel Zechariah 4 and Revelation 11.
The point is as per Zech6:9-15, the “capstone”, Christ, is NOT set in the spiritual temple completion of the future because all 144000 are not sealed yet.
The Temple completes with the Messianic Kingdom when all 144000 are PRESENT, not just sealed in affirmation as well. (Rev14:1-5) THEN Christ can be crowned Messianic King-Priest. (King of kings) IN THE FUTURE…
Jehovah’s witnesses already teach this in Fred Franz era– even JFR may have touched on this, you have just forgotten apparently. There is no debate, we are supposed to be preaching that completion too, but I guess JWs “nodded off” a bit, but some have the original “oil” from 1914-1918. (Matt25:1-13)
(05-19-2018 09:53 PM)Brother Rando Wrote: It obvious you’re not a Jehovah’s Witness your teachings are in error, nor am I going to debate and explain your errors.
“That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,” (2 Thessalonians 2:11)
[-] Religions of the World
Discuss and learn about individual religions. No debate against a religion is allowed in its forum. In this case it’s Jehovah’s Witnesses. Thank you.
You are the one that needs to go back and truly review your errors. I KNOW JW theology inside and out and that is how I know, though it is fine to think for yourself, you are interjecting your own ideas and that is confusing you, but it is also helping you. But you need to go read Paradise Restored by Theocracy, Nations Shall Know, and Grand Climax books at the very least. Any elder in a congregation would be counseling you if they were old school for the way you meander in your own theology. But, I commend you, at least you are moving ahead because all this comes out in the final 1260 days anyways.
Good day— until you get your own JW teachings up to 1969 date, the furthest progress they have made with the Finished Mystery book, and you should read Freedom of the Sons of God as well as the Eternal Purpose and 1000 Years Has Approached books. (1963 BTG Has Fallen and 1969 Finished Mystery have all the info re-summarized for 1989 Grand Climax book, it was NOT new teachings, just a couple massages here and there.)
Never read them? And you are saying I am not Jehovah’s witness? Typical. You best get up to date before you go around calling yourself an expert on Jehovah’s witnesses Temple and Kingdom prophecy. And IF you have read them, you best read them again asap.
[And the ONLY reason I am not telling you to read Your Will Be Done book is those errors in Daniel 8:11-14,23-25 and 11:27-45 will not help you, it is getting fixed with the final warning 1260 days, prior to it.]